High Noon and Jail

Jim · Příspěvek od **Jim** » 11 bře 2008, 04:43

If I don't get out of Jail during High Noon, do I still have to lose a bullet?

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 11 bře 2008, 17:37

To be formal, with the new rules, if you don't get out of prison, then you skip your turn completely (before you skipped phases 1 and 2), so there's no "start of your turn", so I would say you don't lose the life point.

... but ...

... I wouldn't be suprised if someone had a different idea ...

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 14 bře 2008, 16:39

for example me

on my group life points by high noon are normally lost even if according with rules it does not seem so clear

Emiliano · Příspěvek od **Emiliano** » 29 dub 2008, 21:40

From a strictly formal point of view, lucabil is right, since you slip entirely your turn... So there are times when it is safe to be put in Jail!

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 21 říj 2008, 12:08

[quote:e47cc3ec38="Emiliano"]From a strictly formal point of view, lucabil is right, since you slip entirely your turn... So there are times when it is safe to be put in Jail!

[/quote:e47cc3ec38]

in this case it could be useful to play Jail on ourselves!

dmitrijsadlo · Příspěvek od **dmitrijsadlo** » 22 říj 2008, 07:58

And is playing Jail on yourself legal? That would add a cool aspect to the game

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 22 říj 2008, 08:59

dmitrijsadlo píše:And is playing Jail on yourself legal? That would add a cool aspect to the game

well, according to the rules it's not explicitly forbidden, besides Emiliano himself told us only about the "no-killing-yourself" rule while Panic!, Cat Balou are usable...

I think I will try it

Guest · Příspěvek od **Guest** » 24 říj 2008, 08:04

I wonder,
what are the differences between

"At the beginning of his turn"
and
" at the start of his turn" ?

Q21. What does “at the beginning of the turn” mean?
A. It means “before any other action”, including the check for the Dynamite or the Jail.

Is there any difference ?

Thank you

Actually,
before reading this thread,
i thought they are the same...

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 24 říj 2008, 11:10

Actually there's still something strange around, even if Emiliano have posted his answer. Probably the original rules were not written to solve this question, since High Noon was not already created.

The 2nd edition rules say:
the turn is made up of
1 - pick up two cards
2 - play the cards
3 - discard the cards

Dynamite and Jail have to be checked "before". In the original language...
Dynamite: "before to pick up"
Jail: "as first thing at his turn"

We know we must check Dynamite before than Jail, and having a literal reading the reason is written: Dynamite seems to be out of the player turn, before phases 1, 2 and 3. Jail seems to be inside the phase 1, as first action of it.

That's why, maybe, Emiliano confirmed what lucabil said.
With the new Jail the player skips the whole turn, and with it the phase 1.

Personally, I have always read in other way, considering the Jail like the Dynamite: before phase 1, 2 and 3. That's why I have always let the players to lose 1-life-point when High Noon card is active (even if in Jail) like I've written some posts ago.

These are just my thoughts, nothing more

P.S.: where did you find your Q21, which FAQ? Perhaps it can explain more...

Guest · Příspěvek od **Guest** » 24 říj 2008, 14:10

[quote:cd391a710b="Suzy Lafayette"]

P.S.: where did you find your Q21, which FAQ? Perhaps it can explain more...[/quote:cd391a710b]

thank you for your explanation ..

The Q21 is from

BANG! – A Fistful of Cards
FAQ – Frequently Asked Questions
by Emiliano Sciarra

http://www.bang.cz/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=123

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 27 říj 2008, 15:45

[quote:98ba3bd3c5="Surplus_42"]The Q21[/quote:98ba3bd3c5]

even more, according to this FAQ I would confirm Emiliano in this topic is wrong... but he [b:98ba3bd3c5]is[/b:98ba3bd3c5] the rule!

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 28 říj 2008, 16:38

Yes, the more we go deep into the nuances of the game, the more we discover that the rules are not so well designed ...

P.S. Hi Suzy, nice to see you again!

Suzy Lafayette · Příspěvek od **Suzy Lafayette** » 31 říj 2008, 11:37

lucabil píše:Yes, the more we go deep into the nuances of the game, the more we discover that the rules are not so well designed ...

yes, at least to make "High Noon" and "A fistful of cards" properly work with the main deck.
Let's wait Emiliano to go on...

P.S. Hi Suzy, nice to see you again!

Hi luca, I got off for a long time

but I come back maybe with a good new, have a look at this topic

Emiliano · Příspěvek od **Emiliano** » 03 úno 2009, 17:10

[quote:ef2fe32469="lucabil"]Yes, the more we go deep into the nuances of the game, the more we discover that the rules are not so well designed ...
[/quote:ef2fe32469]

Please keep in mind that it is not an easy task to take into full control all the effects of the cards, especially since the basic rules of Bang! have been written long before any other expansion, including High Noon... not to mention the 4th Edition of the game. And the situation gets worse and worse with each new card and expansion.
Compared to other games, the rules seem pretty solid: just remember what happened when the first expansions of [i:ef2fe32469]Magic: The Gathering[/i:ef2fe32469] came out.

This said, I am reworking on the FAQs to correct situations like this.

lucabil · Příspěvek od **lucabil** » 04 úno 2009, 09:35

Hi Emiliano. My posto was not to say you did a bad work, but just what you said: Rules design was not robust enough to support subsequent expansions.

I can understand that Bang budgets don't rensemble those in Magic where thay can pay an entire R&D team

And, moreover, only a few Bang players would like to cope with things like stacks, resolving and so on

Anyway, a review of the rules is good news. The goal would be to make FAQ useless, that is make the answers derived from rules ... Good job!